Just Call Me a Right-Wing Homophobic Fascist!
Proposition 8 - Definition of Marriage in California
In California, we just finished voting on Proposition 8, and it's no secret to any of my friends & family, I voted 'yes'. California shares with just 23 other states the ability of the citizens to override their elected officials and directly vote on state law. Although with the strict requirements for signatures that many states have, just 6 states, Arizona, California, Colorado, North Dakota, Oregon, and Washington, pass 60% of all citizen originated initiatives. This ability of the citizens to step up to the plate, and over-ride unpopular judicial or legislative law is direct democracy in action. Many of you reading this may envy the states that allow direct participation in the making of law.
Proposition 8 – which, in it’s entirety, states:
This initiative measure expressly amends the California Constitution by adding a section thereto; therefore, new provisions proposed to be added are printed in italic type to indicate that they are new.
SECTION 1. Title This measure shall be known and may be cited as the "California Marriage Protection Act."
SECTION 2. Section 7.5 is added to Article I of the California Constitution, to read:
SEC. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.
It’s important to note that this identical statement: Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California, received 61% of the vote when it was on Proposition 22 in 2000. That 61% is an incredible number, reflecting as it does an otherwise left-leaning California electorate. In ‘red-state flyover country’, that number would undoubtedly be much higher.
The issue, as many people see it, is the right of gays to marry… but of course, they already have that right. A gay man can certainly marry almost any woman (barring, of course, such categories as his sister or mother…) Just as a Lesbian woman can marry any man. What is really meant by ‘gay marriage’ is the changing of the meaning of a word. By changing 'marriage' to mean any societally recognized contract of partnership based in love, rather than the traditional religious & family oriented meaning of the term - gays hope to garner acceptance of their lifestyle... for they already have the legal ramifications of marriage through civil unions (which, by the way, I favor)
But you can’t enforce societal acceptance by judicial fiat. You cannot force acceptance down the throat of society by judicial decree. It’s society that defines the rules, not an elite minority. When a decision by four judges can overturn the society mores of a majority of a society – something is wrong. If for no other reason - Proposition 8 deserves the yes vote that it got.
Running to the courts is never a way to ‘win the hearts & minds’ of a people – the way to do it is with communication. There’s clearly a more receptive audience to the ‘gay lifestyle’ today than there was twenty years ago – as an example. But it hasn’t been forced by law, it’s been attitudes changed by knowledge and communication.
But because the proponents of same-sex marriage tried to do through the courts what they couldn’t do through legislature – they now face a higher hurdle in the form of a Constitutional amendment – rather than a statute – and the problems for those who favor same-sex marriage have gotten worse, not better.
Just to be specific, I personally voted ‘Yes’ on Proposition 8 – favoring the traditional viewpoint of marriage – but not solely for disagreement about the meaning of marriage. I do favor the traditional view of the meaning of marriage, but my objections to same-sex marriage go deeper in a judicial sense - I object to it in the same way I object to the “Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)”. Although ADA is actual legislation, as opposed to judicial activism, the consequences are the same – a bonanza for lawyers.
No-one is in favor of discriminating against those with handicaps – but the ADA is bad law. It’s provided a great legal forum for poor employees to blackmail corporate America, and to put money in the wallets of enterprising lawyers.
Likewise, no-one is trying to assert that you can’t love the person of your choice, merely that you can’t call it what it is not. Don’t force me to condone what I do not. The Constitution wisely put a fence between religion and politics – and it’s a two way fence. For just as religion should not dictate policy, the government should not be able to force those who hold religious beliefs to accept what their religion forbids.
If the judicial interference with the will of the people had stood up – I would foresee the same result as with the bad ADA law – a bonanza for lawyers. Lawsuits restricting the rights of people to freely practice their religion would appear. It would be foolish to deny that the major support for restrictions of same-sex marriage are based on religion. Although Christianity seems to be a favored target of the Left in America today - it doesn't make it right, nor sound societal mores.
I say again – you can’t accomplish societal acceptance with judicial fiat. This is, after all, what the agenda is (and I honestly don’t want to use the word ‘agenda’, laden as it is with negative overtones), not any ‘rights’ that gays already have – but acceptance of their lifestyle. Tolerance is not enough in their view – and in my view its all I need to provide.
So just call me a right-wing homophobic fascist nutcase – I’m proud of who I am, and what my parents, religion, and society raised me to be.
Any thoughts?

Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Reddit
Google
Technorati







I think you're a bigot
If you voted yes on Prop 8, you're a bigot.
You believe that your bigotry is somehow justified because it is affirmed by the Bible is severely unoriginal. The Conquistadores in Latin America murdered plenty of indigenous tribes and were completely 'justified'. Trail of Tears? Manifest Destiny? The Holocaust?
What about divorce? Isn't it false pretenses to claim that divorce is somehow less against the Bible? Or eating shellfish, or wearing pply cotton blends for that matter? Where are your measures banning crab legs? In Deuteronomy, adulterers are supposed to be slain.
Since it is apparent that homosexuality "naturally" occurs every single generation since even before Christ, how fair is it to say that it is unnatural? Keep your Bible out of my Constitution. We separate church and state for a reason.
California's famed liberal bias led me to believe that No on 8 had a pretty good shot. People I spoke with all told me the same thing. No on 8. Were you embarrassed to say it out loud?
But there's hope. According to exit polls, the youths were on the side of the Constitution. Apparently, "all men created equal" was out of fashion for those older than 40. This trend rises with age. All we've got to do is wait a few more generations, and we'll be all that's left. Let's hope it's a long winter.
"If you voted yes on Prop
"If you voted yes on Prop 8, you're a bigot."
Labels can often be a useful tool to categorize things - but would you label me a 'bigot' if I told you I'm against the "right" to marry a child? That too would be a 'redefinition' of the term. A true "bigot" wouldn't favor gays having the same rights as heterosexuals.
"You believe that your bigotry is somehow justified because it is affirmed by the Bible is severely unoriginal. The Conquistadores in Latin America murdered plenty of indigenous tribes and were completely 'justified'. Trail of Tears? Manifest Destiny? The Holocaust?"
This is the infamous "strawman" argument. Set up an argument I never made (and wouldn't make), then demolish it. Christianity has had those who've used it to commit horrific acts - much as Muslims are doing today - but reasonable people don't indict religion for it.
"What about divorce? Isn't it false pretenses to claim that divorce is somehow less against the Bible? Or eating shellfish, or wearing poly cotton blends for that matter? Where are your measures banning crab legs? In Deuteronomy, adulterers are supposed to be slain."
When non-religious people attempt to make fun of religion - it really doesn't mean alot.
"Since it is apparent that homosexuality "naturally" occurs every single generation since even before Christ, how fair is it to say that it is unnatural?"
Tis true that some people who voted "Yes" on Prop 8 would fit into what I think of as the "trailer park" crowd - uneducated, rednecks; if you prefer. I find no argument here - indeed I recognize that homosexuality isn't a choice, but a genetic mistake.
"Keep your Bible out of my Constitution. We separate church and state for a reason."
The people who created our Constitution were the most religious of people, and it was due to the attacks on their ability to worship freely that they created this separation of Church and State - but don't make the mistake of believing that this is a Church vs State issue. Many people who rarely or never go to Church have voted "Yes" on Prop 8 - this is a societal issue. Until you can convince society that marriage should be re-defined, people will be against it. Perhaps the vote might be different if same-sex civil unions didn't already carry the same legal benefits of marriage - for despite the rhetoric, not everyone 'hates' gays.
"California's famed liberal bias led me to believe that No on 8 had a pretty good shot. People I spoke with all told me the same thing. No on 8. Were you embarrassed to say it out loud?"
This reminds me of a journalist who commented after the Bush election: "I don't know a single person who voted for Bush" - when you isolate yourself among liberal friends, and have no-one who can provide alternative viewpoints, you end up with a warped view.
"But there's hope. According to exit polls, the youths were on the side of the Constitution. Apparently, "all men created equal" was out of fashion for those older than 40. This trend rises with age."
The government controlled education system is quite liberal - and is busy teaching our young liberal mush. It's really not a surprise that it's working. I despair when I see the work ethic leaving with our generation, and being replaced with "I deserve it" attitude. But the country as a whole always gets what they deserve - if people are willing to allow their children to be raised by the government - you'll get young adults who accept the liberal viewpoint.
"All we've got to do is wait a few more generations, and we'll be all that's left. Let's hope it's a long winter."
I hesitate to ascribe outloud what that statement appears to be saying. Perhaps I misunderstood.
The issue at stake is the redefinition of marriage by court fiat - it shouldn't be allowed, and no-one steeped in the early history of America could possibly believe that any of our founders would have experienced anything other than horror at their Constitution being used to support this. If this really was an issue of granting rights that gays don't have - it would almost certainly have been voted down, America isn't the racist, bigoted place that liberals assert that it is. And even though we disagree, I do appreciate that you took the time to comment.